Hi Vicky! my name is Sha-sha and I'm from the Philippines. I am from Vineyard Church here in Mindanao and Loving the Unity and the relationship I have with the people from my church. I think having different denominations is healthy diversity. That is the beauty of our God. He has different characters and he deals with each person in different ways. I don't think that there is beauty and joy if God deals with each one of us the same way. that would be monotonous. I love diversity! It's one of the things where God displays his creativity and His greatness. I think I have to put it on paper first and post it on here again. hahaha

Hi Vicky, cool blog, will be returning back here for encouragement and insights :)

You got an iPhone, lol, last Christmas I visited my brother who is currently living in Northern Ireland. He's doing an internship with Kathryn Scott and she proudly showed us her iPhone, so you have a fellow worshipleader-gadgetgeek, hehe.

I'm a youthworker in a tradition church and encourage the young people to look beyond walls created in history. Whether they are justified or not, I tell them to look for truth AND love. That is what Christians connect.

till next blog! :)

You got the iPhone...congrats! :)

If you haven't picked up a cover for it yet, I recommend checking out the Revo. I bought it at the Apple store but I think they sell them online too. It's a bit more pricey than the others but seems to offer more protection.

Church denominations...I attend a non-denominational church. I think it's good that we have different types of churches because all of us are different. We need to find one where we can connect with others and serve God in whatever way He has equipped us to do so. When Christ returns, He'll unite us as originally intended. But for now, I think it's best to focus on the things which unite as believers. Great question!

Hey Vicky and all you I-Phone folks:

I am very impressed by the I-phone and they look like a lot of fun, but I just can't justify the expense. Vicky, with your ministry, you can. I have (and need) the navigator programmed into my Verizon phone and when I visit folks, and I get it for just $10 a month. It works just fine for me.

As for denominations, I think that I have developed an interesting perspective over the course of my ministry.

The service of communion in my denomination begins with an invitation: "Christ our Lord invites to his table all who love him, who earnestly repent of their sin, and seek to live in peace with one another..."

I was ordained as an elder, a United Methodist minister, in 1984. I was baptized, confirmed, and grew up in this denomination, then went to a UM seminary, Duke Divinity School, and through my studies there really grew to appreciate my Methodist and Anglican heritage. I studied various Catholic writers (Augustine, Aquinas, mystics), and protestants - Luther, Calvin, and in particular, John Wesley. I then graduated and began serving a local UM church.

But after 2 years, I chose a slightly different career path and served for 20 years as a Navy chaplain, where one of my primary responsibilities was providing for the "free exercise of religion" for all the military folks and their families, regardless of their various faith beliefs. (I mean every faith belief, not just Christian!) As a Christian, that was difficult and challenging at times, especially when I had huge theological differences with a particular religious group, but I was able to continue to serve in the Navy this way by asking the question, "How would I feel if Chritianity was the minority religion, and I was the one simply seeking a place and opportunity to worship?" That made it easy to stand up for all religions, however, when I conducted worship services, they were protestant, and I was a Methodist. So my focus in facilitating for others was on the First Ammendment to the US Constitution, rather than my individual beliefs as a Christian. I had close Chaplain friends and military friends who were Roman Catholic, Jewish, LDS, and others, yet I still knew who I was and what I believed, I practiced those beliefs, and held them dear.

When I was stationed in the San Diego area there wasn't a United Methodist church near where we lived that had a really good contemporary worship service with praise music, or a dynamic youth ministry, so my family and I began looking at other churches. We attended a great church, a Calvary Chapel, for a while, but it was too far away, and then settled on a nearby Presbyterian Church that was Spirit filled with dynamic worship and youth programs. I didn't believe some of the Calvinistic theology of this church, but I loved the people there as dear brothers and sisters in Christ. The pastor was a dear friend. He invited me to preach, and to share my testimony. All along I discovered that the Christian family has many members with different last names.

So I really think that this denomination thing is sort of like last names - mine is Holley, Vicky's is Beeching, and yours is (fill it in), and each family has certain beliefs. I think that it becomes a sad division when we choose to focus on our differences. It is a healthy diversity when look with the eyes of Jesus at the important and substantive things we have in common. The fact that we have different last names, yet are all part of the greater Christian family calls us to look to what we do have in common, the holy scriptures, to try to determine that which makes us truly Christian.

For me, gleaning common beliefs from the scriptures are pretty basic as I follow the Wesleyan theology of repentance, asking Jesus to be Lord of my life and knowing that my salvation/justification is by faith in Jesus Christ and him alone, and that Christ calls me to sanctification - to be ever growing in holiness of heart and life. No treatise here, just the three very basics of Wesley.

In John's gospel (chapter 3), Nicodemus comes to Jesus, and receives a very important lesson from our Lord. Perhaps when looking at others, whether denominations, churches, or individuals, we should consider what it takes to see the kingdom (you must be born again); what it takes to enter the kingdom (you must be born of water and the Spirit); and for whom Christ came (John 3: 16-17).

Blessings Y'all - Pastor Frank

Hey Vicky!

This is my first post! Love your blog and love your music. Yesterday' is the soundtrack to my life!

Anyway, the question...
Hmmm, well I was brought up in the Anglican Church (Church of England), and then my Dad became a vicar for the anglican church, so that's where I began. I moved to baptist church at the age of twelve, then moved to a Pentecostal church at the age of 16, then a free chuch and to be honest I haven't found the 'right' church and I don't think I ever will.

I see myself as a follower of Jesus, and that's the only important thing to be honest...

I mean in the early church, I don't think they had this issue.

I really think it's important to be in a church, or engage in some kind of church for fellowship/suppourt/teaching.

I think essencially, we need to stop concentraiting on our denomination and start focusing back on God.

As long as a denomination is Bible-based and not totally off-the-wall, then I'd say I don't have a problem with different denominations, as long as they don't become exclusive and clubby.

Hope I make sense?! lol.



Anyways, take are

Love,
George.
Coventry, UK.

(I got lost in *supermarkets* several times... I stopped pretending years ago that I have any sense of direction at all...)

I have a fairly complicated background including several denominations and non-denominational churches. It was too long so I erased the list :)

Then I found Calvary Chapel Budapest, which has the qualities that I think are important: 1) It teaches the Bible, 2) Worship is great, even when it's just Mike and his quitar (or when it's 8 people) 3) We're active in ministries, and 4) I found friends. It also matches my personality: it's laidback in style, we always have lots of new faces, ministries are usually organized by the "laity" - pretty obvious as we don't have a clergy ;) - and I never feel that I have to pretend I'm happy all the time. Too bad I moved to England for a while so I'm a bit cut off...

I think denominations are great for the various personality types. Some people would feel awkward in my church, some other would feel overly restricted. So they go elsewhere, and that's cool.

I think every denomination is fine if the Bible is thought and if it's the authoritative source to the extent that *anything* (e.g. the theaching of the pastor himself) can (and is) questioned if it seems to contradict God's written word.

Hey Vicky, just happened to google you in moments of boredom and stumbled across this wonderful page. Your blog is very entertaining and thought-provoking I might add!
Congratulations on the iphone, I still haven't quite convinced myself I need one yet and besides I don't think we get all the use out of them here in the UK. Seems we always get the short straw!
I have been attending a Church of England (Anglican) church all my life and I have to say I love it and cannot see myself ever changing denominations. I help lead worship at my church as well as leading the sunday school and being involved with other things in any way I can really! I think the thing that attracts me most to the Anglican church is the diversity within it. Worship is not restricted to formal or informal settings. You could visit two anglican churches within a few miles of each other and experience a completely different approach to teaching, worship and evangelism. I think this kind of diversity is important in the Church as although people sometimes claim otherwise, it is true to say that each of us enjoys different forms of worship and feel comfortable in different surroundings. The diversity offered by the many denominatons is important to the outreach of the Christian faith, in my opinion. I think the only problem comes when a denomination which rises up has a distorted view of Christianity and misleads people, of which I unfortunately know a few.
I think the only cause of division between denominations is when people want there to be division and in a good church community this should be discouraged anyhow.
Keep up the good work :)
David, UK

denominations are a tough call for me. i work at a "non-denominational" church, but i've worked at some other types of churches before, mostly Baptist where i lead the contemporary worship or youth worship, depending on the job at the time. i 've never really associated with a denomination though, and my reasons wee further shaped by a church i worked at where the denominational differences (i won't say what they were) between them and other churches were very celebrated and were a very integral part of church services, etc. the main problem for me? i wasn't really sure i aligned with some of these issues, but i wasn't able to express that. i just sort of had to pretend.

the church i work at now basically has a set of "essential" values, and a set of "non-essentials" (eg: alcohol, speaking in tongues, calvinism vs. armenianism, etc.). having experienced both of these environments, i've developed the mindset that when it comes to denominational issues, are we creating unity or division? i feel like when we focus too much on these things, we probably more often than not are creating the latter, and shouldn't we really be trying to welcome people, not alienate them because they may not agree with some of our denominational ideas?

I so loved my iPhone. i sold it due to an addiction to it....thought it was the best choice for me.

But i miss it. i would say that you made an awesome purchase...one that would make dad proud. ;)

Vicky,

I always knew I liked you for some reason, not just the looks, the musik but also the tech! I've been listening to you ever since I first saw you doing the worship cafe for worship together.

You now have another RSS subscriber, are you a Mac user?

FYI the iPhone doesn't have GPS, it basically works like GPS by pin pointing your location through wireless networks.

----
How does the Maps location-based service (LBS) work?
LBS provides your approximate location using information based on your proximity to known cellular network towers and Wi-Fi networks (when Wi-Fi is enabled and service is available). The more accurate the available information, the smaller the circle identifying your position on the map. The feature is not available in all areas. Known Wi-Fi networks are predominantly in urban areas. The data collected to provide your location does not personally identify you. If you do not want such data collected, you can choose not to enable the feature.
http://www.apple.com/iphone/questionsandanswers.html

Congrats on the phone. My husband surprised me with one the week before the re:create conference, and I was very grateful to have it for traveling!

I grew up in a small Mennonite church. I now work at a Mennonite Brethren church. There are differences between the two, but they are definitely cousins. Why do I attend where I do? Simple and yet complex answer is that God led my husband and I to ministry in this particular church. Thoughts about denominations? I agree with bobby's thoughts above. It is helpful for a local church to be a part of a 'tribe' for support and accountability. There are many negatives I can think of at the end of this particular work day (!!). Most seem to be about adherence to tradition, which may be a human trait more than the fault of the existence of denominations.

Great question!

I'm at an Assemblies of God church. Reason? I'm gonna sound so lame and shallow. Because that's the church that hired me. Fact is, I'm not really all that loyal to denomination. I've worked in an RCA church (Reformed Church In America), this church, and non-denominational/formerly vineyard church. I've attended Calvary chapel, non-denom, was baptized Catholic, and saved at United Methodist.

Value? I think denominations can be a good thing for support, and being a part of a "tribe" that you can do ministry with. The over-emphasis of denomination and fighting over non-essentials is an issue.

Beyond the value for doing ministry you get into a whole different ballgame. For the most part I don't think denominations are useful for the average church-goer today. People no longer move into a community and look for the church of their denomination I think. They move into a community and look for the church where God is at work and they can join that work, as I think is the best case scenario, or the church that just fits their preference regardless of denomination.

As a side-note, while denominations can be helpful for the most part for the church itself, too many denominations still operate with archaic structures of leadership and government. They have failed to contextualize over the years and I think this has caused the continuing decline of most mainline denominations.

Oh... and speaking of Music in the Rockies, a friend of mine has been after me to go, but it's really expensive. From any folk that have been, is it worth the cost?

well... I was actually thinking about blogging myself about unity... or disunity of the body or Christ. Not necessarily in the context of denominations, but it is part of it.

I'm currently serving in the Church of God, Anderson, IN. I'm in it because I grew up in it... and I've been praying for years that God would lead me to break free of it's gravitational pull, to no avail! I'm not going to air all the dirty laundry, but I will say we, by in large, have refused to change and empower the younger generations. It has made it exceedingly difficult for folk like me who thrive off creativity and fresh new ideas... Nearly every opportunity I have been given through the years has been meet with heavy verbal criticism and negative feedback.

Why am I still there? Cause no matter how hard I pray God still has me stay. Maybe the time will come, but until then we keep working for change, and God has been faithful through all the tough stuff.

As for whether denominations is good or bad? I would say variety is great... but we tend to have a competition type mentality when dealing with other denominations. Then we spend all our time fighting for sheep that already know Jesus and just beat each other up. It's like in the movie Fight Club, where the guy beats himself up... it doesn't make much sense for us as the body of Christ to compete with each other and trash each others ministry in an attempt to be on "top". There was a church down the street that years ago that ran a sign that said, "At a Crossroads in your life? Looking for New Heights? Come to our church!" What you don't know is that two of the bigger churches in the area are Crossroads and New Heights. That kind of competition is evident and drives me nuts!

I think the fight for "correct" theology that creates denominations is fading off with the younger generations and I am really excited about that. If the denominations can put aside the little things and unite in the case for Christ it won't matter what denomination you are in.

I attend the United Church but I'm going to assume that most of you aren't familiar with it as it only exists here in Canada. It's the denomination I grew up in and for which I currently work but for me it means a lot more than that. As a liberal church we taken some strong stands nationally and that's really important to me. However, our structure also allows for a wide range of ideas and beliefs to fit and be welcome in the life and work of the church. My calling to contemporary worship ministry sometimes seems a little odd in a place where most congregations are only slowly moving towards more contemporary services. My mom keeps suggesting that I may need to leave the United Church for a while and then come back later. Not the plan right now though.
I'm starting to realize I'm sounding a little gushy about my denomination (weird right?) and that's not really my intent. God is the important part and you can worship God anywhere. It's just the place where theologically and personally I fit in best.

The church I'm currently serving in as creative director is non-denominational. I grew up Pentecostal and saw a lot of legalism, etc. Ever since college, I've been really only in churches that are non-denominational. I think a lot of people are in the same situation. We have lots of people in this church from very different denominations. They are all unique, gifted, special people and bottom line, just want a place to encounter God, build relationships and get through life with other people in the same mindset. I personally appreciate different traditions and experiences when traveling and attending various churches. It shows that God is so big, he has to be worshiped in so many ways and even with all of these, it is inadequate.

Actually, the iPhone does not have GPS. It uses Google Maps to create what's called a Virtual GPS. Pretty close with its new location feature, but still requires alot of attention and input.

For blogging, just make sure you have a proper plugin installed to allow the iPhone to write to it. I have 2 blogs using Wordpress, and had to do this.

For Twittering, may I suggest using Hahlo, a web client designed for the iPhone. You can even save the page to your app launcher for quick access.

All in all, I've been pleased with mine. It is the best convergent device out there. Glad you came around. :)

As for your other question, I grew up Southern Baptist, and am currently serving a partnering church, but we are not technically Southern Baptist. My father was a pastor, so Southern Baptist is pretty much all I've ever known.

Hi Vicky,
found your blog while surfing a bit the internet and I like it. It's real cool!

Congratulations to your iPhone! I am still fighting with myself. But who knows. Maybe in some days...

Now to your question: I am a protestant. In fact I do not know what kind of. In Germany you have the big protestant church (that's mine), the big catholic one and the others like the evangelical one for example. I am living in France now and the church most similar to my church is the lutherian church. But as it takes me more than one hour to go this kind of church I started searching for something in the town I live now. Let's see what happens...

As I was baptised when I was a baby I had not really the possibility to choose a church. Nowadays, the denomination does not play a big role in my life cause I do not distinguish between different ones. We are all following Jesus, with the Bible as our reference. For me, that's the most important thing.

nice phone.

That's funny that you justified a purchase like that, too. I did the same thing when I first got my iPhone. It's hard to buy something that expensive without a really good reason. Here were my reasons:

1. Gadgets like the iPhone are something that I enjoy, and people tend to spend money on things that they like - I'm just investing in my hobby.

2. I would use almost all of the features (and I do, I pretty much use all of the applications that are provided on the phone, so it's not like it's going to waste).

3. It will last a long time, and even if sometime soon I decide to get a new phone, I can pass it on to someone else in my family.

I definitely had more reasons, but I forget. I'm sure somehow I used God to justify it, which is not good, I know, but I don't remember.

I am so glad that I am not the only one who gets lost in my own homw town! I get endless teasing for it.
Wow what a question so early in the morning!
I grew up in a very strict United Methodist church, then left the church in high school. When I found my way back to Jesus, I attended a Nazarene church. God moved us about three years ago to a Methodist church. We know this church is where we are suppose to be, but our theology is probably closest to the Nazarene.
The community I was in when I attended the Nazarene church, was very integrated, denomination wise. We all worked together, had community services, collected for mission work together, went on mission trips together, and so on. It was a great relationship. In the community I am in now it is not the case. My husband is the worship leader at our church and has made the suggestion many times to get the churches in the area together for some different projects. Everytime he is given the same responce. There are three UM churches in the area, ask them. It is very sad. I don't think this is the way the Church as a whole is suppose to behave. All followers of Christ are part of the same Church. I don't think it is healthy when denominations close themselves off, or use it as an identification.
I just have to add that I noticed yesterday that you will be at Music in the Rockies this year. I about hit the floor. My husband is the musician not me, but I went with him a couple of years ago and it was litterally life changing. I am trying to talk him into going this year!
Thanks Vicky love the blog!

A big Daytona Beach YAHOO for ya!! Welcome to the family!

Hi Vicky,
If only AT&T;'s service was worth ANYTHING here in Southeast Georgia, I'd be having my own iPhone for sure. I'm a die-hard Mac Addict, and not being able to enjoy the iPhone is a tragedy!

I'm hooked on blogging/twitter, too ... isn't it fun? I started following your tweets yesterday (www.twitter.com/fmckinnon)

As for denominations - we are "non-denominational", ironically, which has become a "denomination" of it's own!

For the Kingdom
Fred McKinnon

Brilliant, Vicky! I share all of your sufferings except that I am not on tour or likely to be on tour any time this year. :o)

My home church for about two decades has been an Assemblies of God church. I've also attended a Vineyard for a while, and was raised for the first 8 years of my life in a Baptist church. I'm currently attending a church picked by my friend and roommate Scott - Mars Hill - here in Seattle.

You should have seen the size of the post I threw out on the last reply... and that was just supposed to be a list of ten items...

And this is a fireside question! We don't have all night... :p

For these reasons, I won't touch the "why" question for now. As to the last part, that's easy - it's both. (And you didn't ask why about that...)

And thanks again, Vicky. This place is great. :o)

Ok... I was just about to hit the "Post" button and I couldn't quite do it. On the "why" question, I think the most important thing comes down to genuine love. You'll never find a place with perfect theology... and if you join, ... Yeah, you know the rest of that one. Also, in my book, if you find a place that thinks they have the perfect theology, Run! ...that is unless they also have the love thing down, and then it might be worth sticking around for a while anyway.