Behind The Scenes at the EMI Songwriting Studio!

– April 3, 2008Posted in:

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Hi friends!

Happy Friday! I thought to beat those "it’s still not quite the weekend" blues for anyone who wishes it was already Saturday (!)… I would take some home video footage of my Songwriting Day @ EMI, so you can get a glimpse of what it’s like in there. Hopefully this will while away some of your workday and make you smile!!

I have been busily songwriting recently and have a bunch of new songs demo’d (how DO you spell that??). They arent proper studio recording quality, but nevertheless I thought I’d share them with you! They will be posted on my Myspace one per week. If you head over there now you can hear the first one "Breath Of God" and let me know what you think! www.myspace.com/vickybeeching

Question for you today….I’ve missed the more "controversial" debates on this Blog! So here goes…. ; )

"Once saved, always saved?"

Looking forward to some good Theological discussions in the Comments section!

Smiling,
Vicky

Related Posts - these might also be of interest:

http://rawkalways.blogspot.com Linz

black eyes are pretty good, its like an americano but instead of adding shots to hot water they add shots to brewed coffee. my weekend started today and I’m loving it!

in answer to your question, I’d have to say yes. just because someone is not super close to God does not make them any less of a christian than anyone else.
God died to redeem everyone, and if they truely have accepted Him, they are saved forever.
http://www.jonathanpaulmusic.com Jonathan

Hi, Vicky! Thanks for the bright spot in my day! Getting a tour of the writing studio was just great!

I really enjoyed the demo too. (I just listened to it again.) You did all of that in Garage Band? Wow, not bad! :o) I wish I knew what you were using for the rhythm and for the cool harmonic-y sounds. Maybe I have to try Garage Band for myself. (…or more likely, maybe I should try to get good on the guitar!) A few years back I used the predecessor to Garage Band – part of Final Cut Studio at the time – but it’s been a while since I checked back. Anyway, tech aside… like I said in my earlier Tweet, I especially love the line just before the chorus that says, “just say the word and my weary soul will be renewed.” This transition between creation on a large scale and the creation of a renewed heart is beautiful. I’ll be praying for divine inspiration for your writing and rewriting in the coming weeks.

On the controversial question, I think if someone is in the position to really be worrying about that one, they’re asking the wrong question. This one has relevance only if you’re flirting around at the fringe someplace. I often like to bring this sort of thing back to where the rubber meets the road, “how does this make a difference in my life?” This seems like one we should have to worry about much. Just live so that you have no question where you are in your relationship with God. Then it doesn’t matter what you think about this question OR what the fact of the matter is. :o) That said, I probably could go around and around on a number of points related to this, but where would that get us? ;o)

Questions that come to mind for you about this post: During your “songwriting days” do you spend some of your time working out brand new stuff, some on polishing/rewriting, and some on working out demos, or are these demos made on other days? In the case of a demo like this, is the song itself in most cases set in stone for the most part by this point and just ready to be tracked and mixed using a bigger team on better equipment?

Oh, and one more thing. Your MySpace is playing “Wonder of the Cross” now. You have such an expressive voice, I’m amazed. I love how I can hear your smile in your voice!
jessica do c. anjos do monte

Once saved always saved ????? if we do not fall, but …
We have to earn that salvation, we must permanercer always in the Lord while the focus that is Christ. Because if we fall convicted. We must watch and pray all the time that the enemy of our souls weapon pitfalls hardly swallow for us, because we want to see fall.
We must always alert because we are in a war and fighting all day against our flesh and the devil. We must not allow the devil by small things make us fall. I those my 20 years of age, I saw many of my age, older or younger fall, friends, church friends from school are swallow the darkness for several reasons and ways. Jesus gave us the salvation, but we have to choose semos saved or not, choose to love God or not and a matter of choice …………..
We have to earn the salvation, earn the love of God that is in Jesus Christ. Peace and good endweek to you here in Brazil hug \ o /)
Great is the grory of the Lord, great is the glory of our GOD. :)
Sha-sha

hey Vicky! Hello again from the Philippines!

You are still my favorite worship leader…(laughs) well, that’s a complicated question, but i will try. I don’t read the Bible that much, esp the old testament, cause of the complicated terms used there. does that make me less of a Christian? but I believe in what John 3:16 said and what Romans 8 had to say about that. Nothing can ever separate us from the love of God. I love the way Vineyard Worship leader, Sheri Keller put the scripture into song “If God Is For Us”, but that doesn’t mean we can do anything we want just because we are free. God will never take away the salvation He freely gave us through His Son Jesus, but this kind of freedom means, being free from doing evil things that will lead us to destruction. i want to go back to that verse that says “Work Out your salvation”. but I don’t remember that text in the Bible. I apologize. working out your salvation doesn’t mean you need to do something to be saved, cause it’s impossible. there is nothing we can to in order to be saved. That’s why the Father sent Jesus. Our good deeds are like filthy rags. but when we are in Christ we are a new creation. we have been made new, but we have to live our lives worthy of the grace that God has given us. because Jesus paid a most precious price. So we are His forever! our past sins and future sins have been paid for by the blood of Christ. And we can always come to God for forgiveness when we sin or we fail. But it’s important that we shine, so that others may see our good deeds and glorify our Father in heaven. We are saved forever. But we must live like Christ did. The only Jesus that others see is us.

Love and Peace,
Sha-sha
http://www.myspace.com/nathanarnoldmusic Nathan

whew… big one today, eh VB? First… I must say I’m not watching that video again until I can afford more studio time. It really makes me yearn to be back there.

In regards to the once saved… I have never been able to land on anything. As with all theological issues it is intimately entangled with so many other discussions.

On a non-scripture supported view, I was talking about this years ago with a mentor of mine. His take was that “once saved always saved” is right, because if you have had a legitimate salvation experience, if you have truly encountered Christ, you can’t go back. This seems true given the history of the early church.

I think a reason this question has become so big is that we have such an abundance of “have been” Christians in western civilization. Maybe the allure of the pampered life we all live numbs the need for a Savior… or maybe it’s the churches fault. Maybe we’ve made becoming a “Christian” too easy. I’m not sure… but us 1st world Christians are weak.

My question is: What qualifies as saved? Does uttering a sentence save you? Or does Christ require real life change? Is grace costly or cheap?

If we say all we need to do is utter a prayer… that grace is free and cheap, then my vote is that “once saved, always saved” is a sham. I point to Matthew 25 as support. There are two parables in that chapter, both of which point to people who knew “about” Jesus who didn’t make it in. In the parable of the talents, the servant KNEW his master before he departed, even receiving a gift. Yet when the master returned he kicked that servant to the curb because he had neglected his gift. That sounds like a fall from grace to me.

Now… if we believe that grace is costly, that it requires a change in us, then I think I buy the once saved always saved. Because I have yet to see a person who exhibited TRUE life change, who embraced costly grace, that fell away. I haven’t seen it. My history book shows me thousands that died because of that change though.

So I guess, the question for me is how do we define salvation?
Christine

Wow, that’s really a big question and already a quite controversial discussion :)
well, my first respond would be a clear “yes”. Why so? Perhaps because it gives hope and leaves air to breathe when i see how often i fail my status of being saved…
two examples to perhaps “prove” it.
1) the israelites – God never let down on them, no matter how much they messed up with everything. He stuck to them and remained faithful as He always is and didn’t decide to find a better people even though they turned away from Him, distrusted Him, worshipped other gods, etc.
2) C.S.Lewis once wrote that christianity or faith is like wearing a “mask” that is not ours – we are sinful humans full of flaws, but since the day we gave our life to Jesus, we began to wear a “mask” of Jesus and the more we wear it, it leaves a new image on our face and more and more becomes our face.
There is always a difference between the I, I am and the I, God already sees in me and wants me to change into.
Being saved definitely doesn’t mean to become perfect and flawless in the second i pray… but it is the beginning to a life where i have to decide each day wether i will live out this decision i made with all its consequences or wether i chose not to.
But I believe that if i do not chose to i miss out on a whole bunch of brilliant genius adventures and blessings but nevertheless it does not undo my salvation…And if I come to a point where I notice that I didn’t live according to my salvation, I won’t get saved again, but go back to my salvation and ask God for forgiveness and renew my comitment – for His comitments are never taken back or broken.
In the end, God is the only One to judge, and until then I will believe in His grace, love, goodness and righteousness.
Greetings,
Christine
http://www.jonathanpaulmusic.com Jonathan

Hey, Nathan! It’s good to have you back; I missed you! I didn’t get a chance to check up on you on MySpace (mostly because work’s been so nuts for a the last week or two), but I’ve been thinking of you. Yesterday (and part of today) I was able to work from home, and that was a nice change (from never being home).

Here’s another question for Vicky (in case you get a few minutes to answer)… what are *your* thoughts on your latest controversial question? :o)
http://www.jonathanpaulmusic.com Jonathan

Just saw your post, Christine. That made me think of the part in The Silver Chair where Jill and Eustace end up messing up every single one of the signs that Aslan gave them, and they still are allowed/able to complete the quest; it just took them longer. I’ve seen that in my own life before where I’ve missed the sign a time or two and God doesn’t give up on me so easily. Though it might have been easier if I’d have gotten it right the first time, He gives (many) second chances!
Lucy Geale

Hey!
hmmmm…..always a hard question, especially if you have friends who have walked away from God.
Im not entirely sure where i stand on this thought. i guess if someone has made a genuine commitment to god then they are saved. your salvation is secure. you have to remember that god is not a god who praises the good and punishes the bad. i think the biggest passion of his heart is for personal, intimate relationships with his people. we’re his kids and he’s our dad.
if you walk away from him after a commitment, he is going to pursue you forever! he wants to win you back!
but theres also the arguement that if you are not for god, then you are against him. you cant sit on the fence.
hmmm….let me have another think about this one!

love lucy x x x
Christine

great example @jonathan :)
Carina

What a hard question today. I don’t believe that someone who is once saved, is saved forever. Yes, I know the story in the bible of the son who went back from home and when he came back his father was so happy that he forgave him everything. To a certain point I agree. I believe that God is waiting for us if we decide to go another way far from him. But having God waiting for me and being saved forever are two things. What about a guy who was following Gods way when he was young, forgot God someday and then he kills somebody and never came back to God during his lifetime? I am sure that God is waiting for him, but for me this does not mean that this guy is allways save. He can come back to God, always – but it is his decision which way he wants to choose.

Have a nice evening, afternoon,… wherever you are :-))
http://www.myspace.com/nathanarnoldmusic Nathan

Well it’s always good to be missed. It’s been a busy month or so… Easter was big, and then the vocal band RESCUE (www.rescuemusic.com) decided to do one of my songs on their latest album. It comes out this weekend. They let me sing on my song which was way cool, and they are letting me sing at the release. It’s pretty surreal. I didn’t think any of my stuff was that great.

The reason I really struggle with “once saved always saved” is it provides an avenue for relaxed living. It opens the door for people to be secure in their eternity regardless of how they live on this earth. If you combine it with the churches approach to salvation (just say these words after me) then what is the need for true life change?

It is so apparent that this way of think has overwhelmed at least the church of America. Look at us. Divorce rates skyrocketing in the church, child abuse issues popping up everywhere, pastors hooked on pornography. But you talk to these people and they are convinced of their salvation… shouldn’t their be a change? It breaks my heart to think that Christ was crucified so that I could say a little prayer and then continue to live a disgusting life.

We should not live in fear that one misstep will cost us our salvation. There is grace. But should we continuing sinning so that grace should increase? Why are we Christians so afraid of saying that life change is a requirement of salvation?

I was just about to send this off and the thought popped into my head. John 15:2 – “Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.” And Matthew 3:7-10 – “7But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where he was baptizing, he said to them: “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. And do not think you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.”

It seems to me that over and over in the NT we are told that who we are and what we do is intimately entwined with our eternity. In these two passages it is clear that God is willing to cut us out if we are not producing fruit. I for one am not willing to teach a theology that may allow someone to relax.
Mandy

Well I’ve been debating since I read this post last night whether to comment or not. Put simply, I really dislike the word “saved” I think it is charged with evangelical rhetoric. It gets in the way of understanding the point of a life with God rather than some moment. I just don’t buy into the idea of being ‘saved in a moment’ Instead, I think it’s about growing into God (if that makes sense to you guys). Feel free to disagree; I think that kind of dialogue was what Vicky was hoping for when she posed this question.
Meghan

What a question!
I don’t think God gave us a clear answer on this one. I don’t think that people looking for a free ride to heaven can just utter a prayer and then go about their lives. I think there are many Christians who lose there way, so if it is not once saved always saved where is the line drawn? How far do you have to wander to be considered “unsaved”? God says sin is sin, none greater, none smaller? It can be dangerous to judge anyones salvation but your own. In the same way we judge, we will be judged.
However, I think preaching once saved always saved also leads us down a dangerous road. God does not give us a clear answer to this question. He does give us our priorities. Love the Lord Your God with all your soul, with all your heart, with all your mind, and with all your strength. I think if we do that we will not wander in the first place.
http://www.jonathanpaulmusic.com Jonathan

Thanks Christine and Nathan! …and that’s exciting, Nathan. Glad to hear that your absence was for something so great!

I do agree that the problems associated with believing in eternal security and being wrong about that seem to be much higher than those associated with believing you’re less secure and being wrong about it. That said, I also stand by my previous statement that we ought to live our lives the same regardless of what we think on this, and that this should be in such a way as to make this whole thing a moot point! :o) So far as how we relate to our unsaved or “backslidden” friends, we have to continually extend God’s love to them and trust in God’s mercy and true justice that are both beyond our human comprehension.
http://www.richkirkpatrick.com Rich Kirkpatrick

I lOVE your tour of the studio. I wondered what that room was like. And, “Breath of God” is fantastic. I want the chords for it, please:-).

OK…my take on your theological question.

I do believe in the fact that it is true that we are saved without works and works do not “keep” us saved. So we are not disowned once truly a son of daughter of God. However, works are a sign of our faith, so without them one should question his/her faith being real. But, would I wag my finger and say “going to hell” because a brother is faltering? No. I should “restore” him.

It seems an easy crutch to scare or guilt people into becoming believers since the Holy Spirit should have that role. So, why would we use this crutch to “keep people saved”? Just to keep people in line is what I fear that power leads to spiritual abuse.

Again, however, God’s holiness demands us to live holy. The fruit of my life will never be perfection, but surely God can be pleased by a life of faith and in that faith it is obvious to others.

I actually think worship style is more controversial these days than theological issues? Go figure!
http://pinkhairedgirl.net Crystal Renaud

i grew up Catholic and became a protestant Christian after hearing the Gospel at a Baptist youth camp when i was 15. i have been under the notion that when people come to know Christ as their Savior, they are brought into a relationship with God that guarantees their salvation as eternally secure through the payment of blood for our sins. But that is not the belief of all Christians. not to try and sway my own beliefs, I want to ask you, isn’t the idea of a love, grace and mercy-filled relationship with God, a better picture than one that is based on works and can be lost?
http://www.myspace.com/nathanarnoldmusic Nathan

There has to be balance with how we view God. To view him as all love, grace and mercy is to fail to recognize the wrath and justice of God. Christ’s death on the cross does not eliminate the judgment of God, it just frees those who believe from it. Salvation is a free gift, but I believe it demands change.

As to “losing” your salvation, I don’t think that is possible. That’s like, I lost the keys to my car. I woke up and they were gone. But one can CHOOSE sin over salvation, and thus nullify their salvation.

I think of several verses that speak to the ability to leave it behind, and our NEED to continue in the faith in order to gain our reward.

John 8:31, Romans 11:22, Colossians 1:20-23 all have the words “if you continue”. John 8:31 are words from Christ that say “if you continue” you are my disciples… not if you say you believe.

Luke 8:11-15 is the parable of the seeds. In it it says “They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.” People will hear AND believe, and then leave it behind. Christ says these folk don’t make it. Shall we then say Christ is false?

Here’s a great verse… Hebrews 10:26-27, “If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.” So… we CAN walk away and lose the sacrifice for our sins. Doesn’t sound like once saved always saved to me…

I’ve got more verses… but this is long enough already. : )
http://vickybeeching.typepad.com/vicky Vicky Beeching

Great discussions guys!!

Seeming as my thoughts were asked for on this question by a couple of you, here goes….(and I’m still figuring this out…but this is what am wrestling with right now)

Position 1. When Jesus says “Many will say Lord, Lord” but He will say “away from me I never KNEW you” this reminds me of the Hebrew word for ‘know’ in the OT (its “yada”). It means intimate knowledge like that of husband and wife. I think when someone gets saved then drifts away, it could be said that they have ceased that intimate knowledge. Jesus said of those folks that even though they cast out demons” and “did miracles” in His name, it wasnt enough… So it seems like when the heart connect with Jesus is gone, its a very serious matter.

Position 2. Drawing on the marriage analogy, two people can separate and not be emotionally close anymore, yet legally they are still bound by their certificate of marriage, regardless of emotional connection, as they entered a binding covenant. When we accept Christ it is a binding covenant of the highest form. Perhaps then it is stronger than our wayward emotions and like that separated husband and wife, the covenant of salvation still stands in Heavens legal system?

Any advice for me as I wrestle with these 2 ideas?

Vicky
http://www.myspace.com/nathanarnoldmusic Nathan

I find a ton of scriptural support for Position 1… although I like the thought of Position 2, where’s the scriptural support? I’m not saying it doesn’t exist, but what is it?

As I was reading your thoughts it brought to my mind what Anne Graham Lotz said on the Early Show after 9/11. When asked why God would let this happen her response was, “I say God is also angry when he sees something like this. I would say also for several years now Americans in a sense have shaken their fist at God and said, God, we want you out of our schools, our government, our business, we want you out of our marketplace. And God, who is a gentleman, has just quietly backed out of our national and political life, our public life. Removing his hand of blessing and protection.”

I believe that God honors our will. If we choose to walk away from him we severe the bonds of our covenant. God will not hold us to it against our will.
Martin

During the reading of the comments it dawned to me that the question about being saved is directly connected to saviour, Jesus Christ. He says: I am the way to the Father, so to know me is to know the Father and knowing Him is eternal life. So relationship is a biggie in this matter. Vicky, you pointed that also out with the relationship example. Well i read a quote about a week ago from Henry Nouwen:

(from the Selfless Way of Christ)

‘Regardless of the particular shape we give to our lives, Jesus’ call to discipleship is primal, all-encompassing, all-inclusive, demanding a total commitment.
One cannot be a little bit for Christ, give him some attention, or make him one of many concerns.
Is it possible to follow Christ while fulfilling the demands of the world, to listen to Christ while paying equal attention to others, to carry Christ’s cross while carrying many other burdens as well?’

He continues:

‘These challenging words are not meant only for a few of Jesus’ followers who have a so called ‘special vocation’. Rather they are for all who consider themselves Christians.
They indicate the radical nature of the call. There is no easy way to follow Christ.
As he himself says: ‘Whoever is not for me is against me.’ (Matthew 12.30)’

We are urged to work on our relationship… why? Well consider this: why do you want to be in heaven when the Host is a stranger to you?
CovenantMD

I haven’t seen much scripture in this thread.

Once Saved, Always Saved?

You betcha.

What is salvation? A gift of God.

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Life given to a dead person. Not just somewhat dead, but absolutely and completely dead (Romans 3:10), unable to do ANYTHING to save themselves(Isaiah 64:6), and thus Christ’s gift of salvation is required to quicken them.

Here is where Christ answers this argument once and for all:

John 10:28-30

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.

30 I and my Father are one.

Sola scriptura.
Sola fide.
Sola gratia.
Solus Christus.
Soli Deo gloria.
http://www.myspace.com/nathanarnoldmusic Nathan

Not for the first time I disagree with you ConvenantMD. Did you skip my posts? I included scripture. Do those not count?

I’m glad you know some Latin, but that doesn’t make your interpretation the end all. Christ speaks in John 10 about the inability for us to be plucked out of his hands… he doesn’t say that we can’t walk out.

In fact… I’m trying to figure out how any of your provided text supports the the statement in question.

With your belief on this statement how do you deal with Hebrews 10:26-27, “If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.”
Sha-sha

Hi there!

Uhmm… I’d just like to apologize for my last comment. Forgive me if I was way out of context on this topic. I’m really sorry…
Caitlin

NOTE: I have not read all of the above posts, only some. This is what I gather from the Word of God:

“For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have EVERLASTING life.” John 3:16

Friends… everlasting life is not given to us when we die, but when we trust Christ as Saviour. If we can lose our salvation, then the life He gave to us was not everlasting at all.

Also… if salvation is freely given to us on the solid base of the blood of Jesus Christ, and NONE of our own works can bring us to heaven, why would God then say, “but in order to stay on the road to heaven you must do good works”? He doesn’t. We do good works once we are saved because the Spirit is within us, but those are NOT what take us to heaven. If I am not living my life according to God’s Word, you may question whether or not I was ever truly a believer, but it is impossible that I was saved at one point and then lost it.

One last thing… if I can lose my salvation, that means that my going to heaven relies on myself. I always let myself down, others down, and I always let God down – it’s human nature, even when we become Christians. Does my eternal destiny rest on wherever I happen to be in my relationship with God at the time I happen to pass away?
http://www.myspace.com/nathanarnoldmusic Nathan

Again… I don’t think it’s a question if it can be “lost”. I don’t think you can “lose” it… but you can choose to “leave” it.

Whatever you want to believe is fine with me… just be careful what you teach. “once saved always saved” paves a wide path to heaven. “If I just believe I’m fine, regardless of my actions”. (I’m still not sure how one gets past the numerous scriptures that clearly state that action IS required, but whatever). Matthew 7:13-14, “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.”

This is no superhighway. Personally I’m kind of tired of hearing “we don’t have to earn anything”. It’s an excuse to be mediocre and lazy. Salvation is a gift that demands life change. Free to receive, but it will cost you everything to keep.
http://www.cpclive.org Matthew

Revelation 2 and 3, make it clear that OVERCOMERS are those who get to enjoy paradise with Jesus. Who are the OVERCOMERS? Well, those who have had a try encounter with Jesus.

One question might be in the parable of the Sower… Which example of “growth” was a Christian? I would say only the one that was grounded and rooted. The others responded yet did not have that depth and foundation in Jesus. Some showed signs of life and sprung up quickly but then withered when the sun came and dried up the ground. Jesus said the cares of this world cause them to give up.

Also what about the parable of the fruit trees? An apple tree brings a harvest of apples. If you have oranges, it doesn’t matter if you say I’m an apple tree. You know what you have oranges as fruit, you’re an Orange tree. I don’t care what you say. Same with Christians. If you say you’re a christian but there is no fruit, then you’re not a Christian. What is the fruit of the Christian? Galatians 5:22.

Christians are Overcomers… It’s the sign of a true work of grace by God in our lives.
http://www.myspace.com/nathanarnoldmusic Nathan

So no one seems to reply to my questions on here… but I’ll try again. Caitlin how do you deal with verses such as Matthew 25 where Jesus clearly states that work IS required to enter in to heaven?

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’”

Or Matthew 7:21 “Not every one that says to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of my Father which is in heaven”

Or in Luke 12, “But suppose the servant says to himself, ‘My master is taking a long time in coming,’ and he then begins to beat the menservants and maidservants and to eat and drink and get drunk. The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers. That servant who knows his master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what his master wants will be beaten with many blows.”

I got more… but I’m really wanting to know how these verses, and ones quoted before are dealt with by someone that believes in once saved, always saved.

Again… I don’t think salvation can be LOST, but it can be walked away from. And It’s not EARNED, but Christ seems to be very clear that work is required for it to be kept. I’m not sure how Christ always gets ignored on the matter…
http://www.cpclive.org Matthew

Nathan,

I don’t think I ignored your comments. I used the letter Christ wrote to the 7 churches in Revelation. He again states it’s the OVERCOMERS that enjoy heaven with Him. A Christian who doesn’t do the work of the father in their overall life direction I would contest is no Christian at all. I know we can have periods of backsliding / rebellion, but overall our direction should be towards doing things like feeding and clothing the lost etc.

I would say you don’t do it to get into Heaven. You behave that way because you have been saved and loved by God.

Moral Imperatives come from Redemptive Indicatives. If you read the 10 Commandments, what are the first words that God says? It’s not “ou shall have no other gods before me.” He starts off by saying

“I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.”

The God who saves you brings forth a change in your life. Because you have been saved you behave a certain way. It’s the same with Paul, he tells us of our position in Christ and then says “Therefore, flea from sexual immorality… etc.”

A saved life is a different life. I think we put too much emphasis on saying a few words, when really a sign of a regenerate heart is denying yourself and taking up the cross.
http://www.myspace.com/nathanarnoldmusic Nathan

lol. OK… so I actually didn’t see the second page of comments. I thought my first comment didn’t post and so I posted a second thought, not in response to you, but in response to another. :)

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