Canadian Greetings!
Hey there!
So we’ve seen many cities and provinces in the past week….. Newfoundland, Monkton, Montreal, Toronto and now Winnipeg…. what a huge and beautiful nation.
Got to sleep…. 7am wake up call tomorrow for a flight… but I wanted to say a quick hello!
Here are a couple of other shots from the past few days shows…
Question for you, as I’ve missed our debates recently!….
I’m challenged by the justice message of this tour….challenged to rethink what it really means to live out the gospel and to take Jesus at His word about loving the world…..
So although theological education is really great and important, do you ever feel like we just need to start living out the basics that we already know? ..
I feel like sometimes we get bogged down trying to broaden our knowledge of what the Bible means when if we just lived out Jesus most basic teachings, we would have enough to keep us busy for a lifetime!
I’ve spent years studying Greek, Hebrew and hermeneutics, yet I know people who live out the basic commands of Jesus, and seem to look a whole lot more Him than I do…
Just a thought… anyone got anything to throw into the conversation?
Love and peace,
Vicky
Ps. Big congratulations to my friends Brian Wurzell and Promise Tangeman – both great bloggers! – who just got engaged! Congrats guys – you make an amazing team and are inspiring to me : )
That is exactly the thing that is on my mind as of lately. To become like Jesus I’ve mostly studied him the first say 30 years of my life. But now that I’ve come to about the same age as Jesus was when he ‘came on the scene’ I’m beginning to understand the importance of practising Jesus.
To use the words of Keith Green:
“Open up, open up, and give yourself away,
You’ve seen the need, you hear the cry, so how can you delay”
Hey Vicky,
Glad to hear the tour is going great.
Just to touch on your topic. I think if we miss out on helping to meet people’s basic needs we miss out on a lot. If we look at the gospels, while Jesus was here on earth, that’s exactly what he did; he fed 5000 with 5 loaves and two fish, 4000 with 7 loaves and a few small fish, he healed, took the children on his lap, hung out with tax collectors and prostitutes, etc. Jesus’ ministry wasn’t JUST about preaching and teaching through words, but He preached and taught through living. “Preach the gospel at all times, and if necessary, use words.” St. Francis of Assisi.
James 2:14-20 (MSG) says,
Dear friends, do you think you’ll get anywhere in this if you learn all the right words but never do anything? Does merely talking about faith indicate that a person really has it? For instance, you come upon an old friend dressed in rags and half-starved and say, “Good morning, friend! Be clothed in Christ! Be filled with the Holy Spirit!” and walk off without providing so much as a coat or a cup of soup—where does that get you? Isn’t it obvious that God-talk without God-acts is outrageous nonsense?
I can already hear one of you agreeing by saying, “Sounds good. You take care of the faith department, I’ll handle the works department.”
Not so fast. You can no more show me your works apart from your faith than I can show you my faith apart from my works. Faith and works, works and faith, fit together hand in glove.
Do I hear you professing to believe in the one and only God, but then observe you complacently sitting back as if you had done something wonderful? That’s just great. Demons do that, but what good does it do them? Use your heads! Do you suppose for a minute that you can cut faith and works in two and not end up with a corpse on your hands?”
Do we really understand? Meeting people where they are, meeting their basic needs… as Christians, that’s what we’re called to do! Few wish to sit down and listen to a theological debate, or listen to someone preach and teach about the love of Jesus when HIS PEOPLE are the ones who see them hungry and don’t feed them, see them thirsty and can’t offer a glass of water, see them cold and not give them one of their 20 coats that are hanging in their closet.
Why do we teach and preach about being HIS hands and feet and then make someone who stumbles into church covered in dirt, smelling of alcohol, wearing rags, either leave or stand/sit in the back?
I sincerely hope that we would not be complacent anymore. For too long we’ve been spectators; sitting and watching. Maybe we’ve seen others helping the sick, feeding the hungry, giving water to the thirsty, and we just cheer them on. But if we can do ANYTHING about it… anything (!!!). Why do we just cheer?
I pray that this generation and the generations to come wouldn’t be satisfied laying in their comfy beds while there are people who are lost and dying, people who need a cup of water, who need a hug, a coat, or a cup of soup. And I pray that through meeting their basic needs that others would see the love of Jesus. What’s the point in the theological teaching when no one wants to listen because all they can hear/feel is the pangs of hunger? Break our hearts with what breaks Yours Father.
I guess my 2 cents ended up being 4-5 cents.
Be blessed
Vicki:
I spent four years studying theology at a Bible College and I realized that ministry is more than just “head knowledge”. I am not dissing what I learned in the classroom but the majority of the courses was merely stuff for the brain very few of the courses I was able to practise.
After I experienced ministry first hand, I realized that everything I learned in the classroom is meaningless unless I am loving God with all my heart, soul, and mind and loving others as myself my degree is only piece of paper that hangs on my wall and three letters behind my name.
Yes, a theological education is important but am I living out what I learned in the classroom. What am I doing to reach people for Jesus Christ? Does my life draw people to Christ or does to draw them away from Him?
If you look at who Jesus choose as His disciples he did not choose the most educated people of His time. He choose ordinary men who help change the world. The majority of these men died a martys death.
I marvel at the people God used in the Bible. He used people that probably we would second guess Him about.
He used:
1) an ex-murder (Moses) to deliever the Israelities from the Egyptians.
2) An eldery woman (Sarah)to give birth to a son who would fulfill the promise that God made to Abraham.
3) A boy (David) to defeat a giant (Goliath) to deliever the Israelities from the Philistines.
I have to learn to realize that God use anything or anybody to complete His purpose. He is just looking for a willing heart that He can use.
Richard
Hey! long time…
I think it’s important to be able to share your beliefs eloquently and intelligently, however this ability is useless without action to back it up. If one is more important than the other, I’d say it’s more important to DO instead of SAY or KNOW. There are plenty of people who aren’t quite “book-smart” enough to be able to articulate their beliefs with words, but are more than capable of reaching out to the poor or lending an helping hand to a friend in need. Of course, this opens up a HUGE conversation bout spiritual gifts…
anyways, we should catch up sometime!
evan
http://weatherford.wordpress.com
What’s the use of a head full of knowledge that never permeates life around us?
We live in a broken world that needs healing now…that can’t wait until we’re all perfectly educated to have their wounds held. It comes down to meeting people where they’re at. For the general population, I can guarantee that they’re not waiting to hear, “He who is Yahweh greatly enamours you, His beloved.” I’m sure, “Jesus loves you,” put to simple actions is good enough for them and will speak worlds more. Don’t get me wrong; I wouldn’t by any extent bash education. My dad is a pastor who studied Hebrew and Greek as well and has told me that although reading the Bible in translation is fulfilling and beautiful, it’s as if we were watching TV in black and white, because to read the Bible in its original poetic prose makes the words light up with colour and vivacity. If education is pointless, then I’m wasting my time busting my butt in the International Baccalaureate Program. Education is sound, but although it’s not pointless, it’s not the point either.
About 1,400 years ago, the printing press failed to exist. Lame. But without printed versions of the Bible, the people relied heavily on highly intelligent men to step up to be rabbis and teach the Torah. Children at that time would go through a long elimination process through the education system to pursue the life of being the most respected members of the community. And by 13 or 14, they would have the entire Bible memorized. Genesis through Malachi…39 books…memorized. Eventually the best of the best of the best would apply to a well known rabbi hoping to become one of his disciples…the deal was, though, after all they had been through, they had to be accepted…or they’d be back at square 1 doing the family business. So at about 30, when a rabbi generally begins his public teaching and training of disciples, we find Jesus walking along the Sea of Galilee. And he calls for two fishermen, “Follow me.” Why were they fishermen? Because they weren’t disciples. They weren’t good enough; they didn’t make the cut. Jesus took some boys who just weren’t quite adequate and changed the course of human history.
So yeah, I’ve been told that we were meant for so much more than simply avoiding failure. But what if failure has nothing to with knowledge? What if failure has everything to do with avoiding the impending birth of who we were born to become? We weren’t chosen because we were equipped; we were equipped because we were chosen. And now I want to know what it’s like to live a life worthy of the calling I have received. Not because I’m well-learnt or deserving in any way, but because the Rabbi called us to serve as His hands and feet long before Theology became a prestigious class that we had to pay $1,000,002 to study. So feel free to join me. We might just change the world.
Cheers.
I love the first picture! It’s very beautiful!
Sometimes I get really tired from al of those books that are available. I love to read, but I just want to have a simple understanding of Jesus’ teachings. It’s really great to have al these books, but what if we only read about practicing what Jesus taught us but don’t actually practice what He preached?
I love studying my bible. I love seeing it come 3-d when you know the history and the greek/hebrew and when you can take a specific idea and follow it from Genesis to Revelation. LOVE IT!
However reading the bible is never going to make me like Jesus. Simply helping people is not going to make me more like Jesus, many people do a lot of good in this world that have good hearts and good intentions. Many are not Christians, and do not resemble Christ.
Close relationship with Jesus with a humble heart to be changed by His guidance, to lay down my own desires for His. That is the only way to be more like Him.
Philippians 3:10 The Amplified Bilbe
[For my determined purpose is] that I may know Him [that I may progressively become more deeply and intimately acquainted with Him, perceiving and recognizing and understanding the wonders of His Person more strongly and more clearly], and that I may in that same way come to know the power outflowing from His resurrection [[a]which it exerts over believers], and that I may so share His sufferings as to be continually transformed [in spirit into His likeness even] to His death
Hey all…
I think that knowing where you stand with God and theological study are great and can really encourage us to became better christians (more christ like) But,sometimes we (me especially), get bogged down in us not knowing, or understanding what God wants us to do. This week I have been challenged to live a more ‘radical’ christian life basing it on the simple gospel of Jesus. Its not easy trying to live a ‘Jesus life’ loving all and carrying your cross. But one scripture really captivated me this week “28And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.” I viewed it in a way I have never viewed it before. To me this week, that verse said it doesn’t matter what you do as long as you do it with God as your goal, (whether spending quality God time with a friend or worship leading) as God will use this service to the good of his people. It taught me to stop just waiting on answers and actually move into something. Not to be a stagnent church, but a church going somewhere and doing SOMETHING!
Ben
—–Knowing God vs. the Practice of God—–
Dear Vicky you asked:
(1) “Do you ever feel like we just need to start living out the basics that we already know? I feel like sometimes we get bogged down trying to broaden our knowledge of what the Bible means when if we just lived out Jesus most basic teachings, we would have enough to keep us busy for a lifetime!”
For a moment image if I said something like this to my spouse (or the church to her spouse, Jesus). Dear spouse I love you but I do not wish to “be bogged down knowing you deeper” but would rather live out my (so-called) love to you more practically. If my spouse told me this, as sincere as it sounds, I would be deeply offended. Another person said: “I just want to have a simple understanding of Jesus’ teachings.” Image how that would look if I said that to my spouse?
Dear spouse I have enjoyed knowing you all these years but I do not wish to continuing my striving to know you with the same intensity as I have, so that I may keep a more simple knowledge of you, so that I may practice my love to you better. If my spouse told me this I would receive this both as in insult to me (I am not worth knowing now as I was ten years ago?), and I would be worried about my spouse for sounding so illogical. Yet saying such a thing to our Lord Jesus Christ would be triple the insult, disgrace and sounding like a hypocrite.
(2) “if we just lived out Jesus most basic teachings.”
Fair enough, but what is Jesus’ most basic teaching, and who are you, me or anyone else to make this standard? The point is that we are not to make such calls, but instead submit to what God’s word makes this standard to be, if one is even made.
Paul when he wrote the book of Romans wrote it to new believers, as a basic gospel message of Jesus’ teaching! Yet, how simple is it? The fact remains the simple gospel message is not as simple as we want to force it to be (yet the stripped bone basic’s are quit simple). Vicky, you asked a question about Calvinism a few weeks ago, yet Romans which was written to new believers has 3 long chapters about these deep things (9-11). Paul would not have wasted so much of this sermon on such things if he was not convinced it was the most loving and most practical loving thing to do! For he says later in Chapter 15 verses 15-16: “Nevertheless, brethren, I have WRITTEN more boldly to you on SOME POINTS, as reminding you, because of the grace given to me by God, that I might be a minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, THAT the offering of the Gentiles might be SANCTIFIED by the Holy Spirit.” Paul, spoke about complicated things in his simple gospel message to us gentiles because by the Holy Spirit, by knowing these things deeply will cause us to be more practically holy and sanctified! Apparently doctrine has huge practical effects.
(3) Someone say: “If one is more important than the other, I’d say it’s more important to DO instead of SAY or KNOW.”
Really? Can you show in the bible where God plainly says He has MORE pleasure in our living out what we know of Him verse’s our enjoyment of knowing Him deeper?
Jesus sets the stage for this topic by addressing the whole world telling us what His Father takes pleasure in! John 4:23, “But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in (1)SPIRIT and (2)TRUTH; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him.” God is happy with, only pleased with, is solely seeking people who’s worship consists continually in our (1) knowledge of truth of Him (which included our delighting in what we know of Him) and (2) by the power of the Spirit to live or live our this truth we know of Him: this is the purest form of worship, the only form of worship certified from heaven.
The rest of the bible breaks down this doctrine in this same way. Time would fail me to mention all the times but here is a few examples. First, this is why Peter says: 2 Peter 3:18, “grow in the (1)GRACE and (2)KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory both now and forever. Amen.” The things we are to be continually growing in are our (1) our knowledge of our Lord Jesus, and (2) the grace to love and follow Him.
Paul charges to Timothy that he must take care to continue and keep safe to particular things, his (1) life, or living holy, and (2) knowing bible doctrine better. 1 Timothy 4:16, “Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.” If you wish to save people if you do not “persevere” in either your (1) life or practically following of Jesus or in your (2) biblical doctrine then you have taken half of the power to accomplish giving the world any kind of “real love.”
See, the bible does not distinguish knowledge of God or living for God against one another or one as better than the other (in essence they are the same thing). But, instead the bible says, real love to God in truth and loving help to your neighbor consist equally in both. God has pleasure equally in both. Now certain roles within the church would require that some would concentrate more to knowledge or practical love more than the other such as we learn in Acts 6:1-7. Yet, everyone one must (in general) persevere in both before God, every day, for this is what makes a person a true worshiper of God.
(4) Some say: “Education is sound, but although it’s not pointless, it’s not the point either.”
So What. Neither is helping the poor or broken the point!
1 Corinthians 13:3, “And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me NOTHING.” Helping the broken and poor, in and of itself is not love! How few people submit themselves to this verse, of God’s word. True, and real love is first given to our Master Jesus Christ, then from this is then secondly given to the broken as a means to share the gospel with them. Where do you see in the bible where Jesus or His apostles helping the broken without sharing the good news of Jesus’ authority and grace? And guess what is one of the main practical ways to love Jesus in personal relationship is? It is none other than delighting in Him as you grow in more knowledge about Him (as I have already proven)! Therefore, without this you cannot claim to say you love your neighbored, no matter how much you practically help them. It seems strange, but one way to love your neighbor is to grow in your knowledge of Jesus, delighting in it, in Him.
The point is to magnify our Lord Jesus Christ by repenting, believing and loving Him with all our hearts, for dyeing for our sins!
(5) Some say: “What if we only read about practicing what Jesus taught us but don’t actually practice what He preached?”
Well, that means you are an UNbeliever! This is the very thing Jesus said to the church going religious people of His day, calling them hypocrites with a one-way ticket to hell.
Just as we learned that helping the broken and poor is worthless without real love to Jesus, which included strong intellectual knowledge of Him, so it is the same when you swing to the other side of the coin. If you intellectually have deep knowledge of Jesus, without this lived out in both love to God and then practical love to the world, it is equally worthless and will send you to hell. Jesus called these people “unbelievers.”
The more you read the bible without living it, the more it labels you as an unbeliever, because the bible says as a promise if your saved and you behold the glory of Jesus with your mind in “knowledge” it will make you more like Jesus ( See 2 Corinthians 3:18, 4:4 and 4:6)!
Believes hear the truth about Jesus, love Him more in it, and loving submit to Him following Him. If you have super deep knowledge about Jesus Christ, and you do not passionately live this love to Jesus and to men in practical ways, then wanting to love the world more is the least of your problems! Yet, I say this in all do respect, with the responses I read both here and with many Christians answering this same question, I doubt this would be a problem with hardly any.
I would say the greatest (but not the only) problem why most in the church do not love their neighbor, as they should is for two reasons, (1) they are unbeliever and therefore do not have real love or power to love anyone but themselves. The second is that most who claim to know SO MUCH about Jesus actual know more about their favorite TV shows, Movies, ipods and internet sites ten times over. Can these people who claim to be so great in knowledge about Jesus actually quote more from memory the bible over their favorite movies, music, jokes, TV shows or even commercials? Can they actually say they listen to more of their bibles, over movies, radio, worldly talk and TV? Can they actually claim they have read their bibles more than any other thing or material, or if their such theologians how many times have they read their bible from cover to cover: 10 or even once?
Conclusion:
A true saint, who actually believes and delights in what the bible says will be happy to fulfill the command from King Jesus and (1) passionately and actively grow daily in their knowledge of their glorious Jesus, whom they love so much and (2) to live out this knowledge in practical worship to their King and practical love to their neighbor.
A true believe views these two things as he does with his left and right hands, together they serve the same purpose, desperately needing each other equally!
Sincerely: Oshea Davis
http://www.osheadavis.com
Phil 3: 8
- “Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ”
2 cor 3: 18, “And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, [1] are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.”
But when we delve into the word we are moved by the beauty of Christ that meets us there to serve Him.
Consider George Muller, Hudson Taylor, Wurmbrand, Jim Elliot, etc.
The average missionary of old/ditto social activist had a huge view of Christ.
Heaven will be theology lived out perfectly.
Theology is important, too, Vicky. If it isn’t important, the Church would not have had seven ecumenical councils to discuss theological issues, such as, who is Jesus Christ? Is He half God and half Man, fully God and fully Man, or just a Man? How are the two natures of Christ joined together? Are they joined together in the same way that a the nature of a horse and a donkey are joined together in a mule, or do they remain distinct and unchanged, but are joined together inseparably without mixture or division in one Person. Who is the Holy Spirit? Is He a creature or is He God? Was Jesus God while in His mother’s womb or did He later become God after He was born? Does Jesus have two wills or does He have only one. Is the use of icons a form of idolatry or do they help preserve the doctrine that the Word of God became incarnate in the womb of a woman. Is it right or wrong to honor the Saints and the Mother of God? Those are the things that were discussed at the seven ecumenical councils along with a whole lot of other things.
One of the Fathers said that faith is dead without works and good works are dead without the right faith. St. Cyril of Jerusalem said that it is possible for a person to do all kinds of good works and be practicing blasphemy because he has wrong ideas about God.
However, there is another type of theology that the spiritual fathers talked about. It is the type of theology that one acquires through direct experience with God. St. Evagrius of Pontus was talking about this type of theology when he said, “A theologian is one who prays, and one who prays truly is a theologian.”
We need to have a personal relationship with God and continue to live in that relationship as we keep His commandments. Father David Anderson once said that we do not keep the commandments to obtain eternal life. (That is, we do not earn it by keeping the commandments.) But “in keeping the commandments eternal life is found.”
It all boils down to a way of life. That is what Jesus was teaching us in the Gospels. We should strive to live our lives a certain way in accordance with His teachings, pray and ask Him for mercy, and in the end we are ultimately saved by the mercy of God.
We must enter in at the strait gate, that is, by following Christ’s teachings and example. Jesus said, “I am the Way.” (St. John 14:6) The traditional interpretation of those words as found in the writings of the Church Fathers is that Christ is the Way in the sense that He is our guide, example, and teacher. We must follow Him!
Steve
The whole “Go out and preach the gospel. And if necessary, use words.” (St. Francis of Assisi) bit, eh?
One of my favorite quotes on this topic is by Mark Twain and goes something like this, “It ain’t those parts of the Bible that I can’t understand that bother me, it is the parts that I do understand.”