Comments on: Once Saved, Always Saved??

By: leebrewster

leebrewster — Fri, 26 Mar 2010 14:58:11 +0000

Dear Vicky:

Hi, This site is awesome. So is your music I love your voice and listing to the praise. I would like to thank you for your desire to serve the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords, Jesus Christ, our Lord, savior and Life. Amen. I would like to bless you, your ministry and your family. God Has given you an awesome ministry and a heart for worship that is a blessing to see and hear.

I would like to comment on your debate or your questions regarding "once saved always saved". firstly I pray that the light and truth of Jesus will be seen and heard through my thoughts and what I believe regarding what scriptures say about this.
secondly even though there are scriptures that seem to imply that one could lose one "salvation", in truth it is not the truth.

We need to look at the word. salvation the word means according to The new Webster's Dictionary:

1 a : deliverance from the power and effects of sin b : the agent or means that effects salvation. John 3:16 (my input)
2 : liberation from ignorance or illusion John 8:32 (my input)
3 a : preservation from destruction or failure b : deliverance from danger or difficulty
This is speaking spiritually: 1 Thessalonians 5:23

and the word saved means;

transitive verb 1 a : to deliver from sin b : to rescue or deliver from danger or harm c : to preserve or guard from injury, destruction, or loss )
3 b (1) : to keep from being lost to an opponent
4 : maintain, preserve intransitive verb 1 : to rescue or deliver someone
3 : to make a save

This is speaking soul:
look at 1st Thessalonians 5:23 that is the division between spirit and soul.

Taking these two things into account; here are a few scripture references that back this up:
John 3:16-18, Romans 6:1-10. these are just two for know that illustrate my point which is that the two words mean two different things. Jesus provides one with salvation through believing (to completely trust in or on Him; look at The amplified bible at these scriptures). And salvation through sanctification (growth into maturity).

On the cross Jesus becomes sin for man and provides atonement for our sin, right. This we all believe, at least I hope. He dealt with sin, death and the effects thereof, in and for man at and on the cross, Romans chapters 3-5 discusses this in detail. then Paul discusses how we also have been crucified with Jesus and also risen in newness of life in Christ Jesus. Romans 6:1-10. we need to note here what Paul is discussing here is what has happened to us spiritually for, by through and in Christ alone. this is our spiritual state in Christ that is we have been joined together with him and have become one with him in spirit. Therefore we cannot be separated from Him. A simple illustration I think is take; before you stir it together; a cup of coffee, (for those who don't drink black coffee) the sugar, milk and coffee, three separate things right, now mix them, they have been changed, it look different and tastes different, yet it is coffee read Galatians 2:20. now even if you had the best devices to separate the three things they can not be separated; that is if you were successful at achieving this, then the three things a. would still have traces of the other in each and b. they would no longer be in there original form. right therefore it is impossible. Hope you see my point here.

Thirdly Paul discusses how we have become a new creation in Christ Jesus; 2 Corinthians 5:17-21, and even then points out to the fact that Jesus was the first born of a new creation; Colossians 1:15. Also to drive this point home The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are the children of God Romans 8:16-18.
Romans 7 discusses how we have died to the law where sin gets it power,
so so far, we have by Christ death and resurrection we have been:
A. Redeemed - no longer guilty.
B. Justified - Made righteous - to have right standing with God.
C. Reconciled - Restored in right relation with God
D. Regenerated - formed or created again or to be spiritually reborn or converted
E.Sanctified - made holy and set apart
F. Crucified - old man (self) has died and it is no longer I who lives and I have been risen in newness of life and sit in the heavenly places. Romans 6:1-10, Galatians 2:20 and Colossians 3:3.

So salvation in your spirit is the final work of the cross Jesus said "it is Finished" John 19.28-30 but being saved in your soul is sanctification, In Hebrews 5:10-15 Paul exhorts us to no longer be on the milk of the word but to grow into maturity and eat solid meat, that way we no longer need to be taught again about righteousness, and that we will be able to distinguish between good and evil. that is what it means to work out your salvation with fear and trembling. It means that as we seek and choose Christ, denying our flesh their will be a battle in the mind. Romans 12: 2. Even Jesus said that we need to deny ourselves and pick up or cross, Matthew 16:21-27 here he is discussing that we need to lay down our lives for his name sake and recognize that he is the only one who can save us, or we will lose our lives, that is our soul, as our spirit has not yet been redeemed (all pre-cross, btw, Jesus only preached the law, not grace, as that did not happen until after his resurrection which was at Pentecost, which as you now the Holy spirit preached through peter and then later Paul to the gentile, as the Jew would not listen, amen) Jesus even went on to say that we need and will indeed drink from the same cup that he drank of, Matthew 20:23 and we need to die John 12:24 in order to live and bear fruit or a harvest, right. What is the harvest and or fruit, well it is the fruit if the spirit, which only the spirit produces, and we bear it, John 15 1-12 and Galatians 5:22-29.

Hebrews 10:26-31 first of all Paul is speaking to the Jew here. Also it is impossible to not sin willfully, as every sin we do is willful - no, but the sin problem was dealt with at the cross, so people do not go to hell because of sin, it is because the do not repent and accept Jesus's atonement on the cross and that is what these jews were believing that is that their sin could cause them to to go to hell, and Paul clarifies this by pointing out what the penalty of the law was, death, but with out repentance they would most surly be facing the lake of fire. note that he says that the tasted did they drink, Hebrews 6:4 no, Once a person comes to Jesus that is the point of repentance, as repentance is a spiritual issue not in the soul, even though we are to act and live from and on it, but first it starts in the heart, then the mind, then in action. it also means to agree with God, and I do not know about anyone else, however, the Holy Spirit convicted me that I was a sinner, I agreed, I repented, ask Jesus to forgive me and to cleanse me I invited him into my heart and he came rushing in Revelation 3:20, that is once and for all as Jesus is our high priest and his atonement is once and for all, also what this is saying is that they did not repent, and that being such that they were insulting the Holy Spirit, and trampling under foot the Son of God and therefore no matter how much they tried to find righteousness through the law it could not be attained, because it only leads to sin, as that is where sin gets it power, from the law, right. for a better commentary check out Bob George at people to people ministries, he has had the longest radio broadcast than any other radio evangalist, 25+ yrs now, here is his link: http://www.realanswers.net/realanswers/?p=43 understanding Hebrew 6:4 and 10:26-31.

In closing:

I could go on and on, but I think that as much as I enjoy the blog thing, this is not the venue to answer all these questions, however, here are a few suggestions and books that I have read that have open my eyes to the reality that one can not lose that which did not belong to him in the first place and that as we agree that it is a gift by God and through Jesus, but also by grace through faith that we are saved. Romans 10:17, Ephesians 2:4,5. Ephesians 2:8-10 (amplified) therefore God will not revoke on the covenant he made with Abraham. regarding Jesus and those who believe.
Jesus prayed for us in John 17 what a beautiful prayer it is, that we would be one with him and the father, and amongst ourselves. this was for future believers, earlier he even states that we belong to him and that we have been given to Him by the father and that nothing, can snatch us out of his hand. Paul even exhorts us that nothing can separate us from the love of God, Romans 8:38-39. and that also that we would come to comprehend the height, breadth, width and depth of his love for us, and this is what the Holy spirit does. Ephesians 3:14-21 Also we also need to note that Christ dwells within us believers. Colosians 1:26-27, and Jesus in Matthew 9:17 said that Neither is new wine put in old wineskins; for if it is, the skins burst and are [a]torn in pieces, and the wine is spilled and the skins are ruined. But new wine is put into fresh wineskins, and so both are preserved. we are the old wine flasks and if Jeus joined his spirit with our old dead spirit we would die, so he crucified us and made us new, and then joined us together with Him. Amen

a few last comments,
1. Satan has us working for things we already possess.
2.We are to work from victory not for it and we are to live in purpose not for permission. and
3. if we live like sparrows we will soar like eagles.
Here are the books and links.
1. the search for significance, by Robert, S Mcgee, this is a link to a text version of the book.
http://www.archive.org/stream/searchforsignifi0...
2. check out Neil T. Andersons site Freedom in Christ: http://www.ficm.org/newsite/index.php
3. Steve Mcvee at http://www.Gracewalk.org book is The Grace Walk
4. GFI (grace fellowship International) this is a great diagram http://www.gracefellowshipintl.com/pg/9 and check out the book handbook to happiness by Dr. Charles R. Solomon here is a link that you can get it from. http://www.gracefellowshipintl.com/pg/16 scroll down and it is about 12 books down also check out the ins and out of rejection, the Rejection syndrom, the way of acceptance, and lastly
5. Mike wells at http://abidinglife.com/2009/. He states that there is nothing that the nearness of Christ can not cure. Also check out his online resources, he has some fantastic articles regarding the Christian life and you can listen to him through some free mp3's here at this site: http://www.mikewellsdownload.com/16k.htm

God has really changed my life. I came from a broken background and a highly dysfunctional family, in short by the time I was 9 I was in a mental institution and diagnosed to be clinically insane, due to abuse, in many forms, abandonment, and lots of rejection. For many of my years, which I am now 38, I have struggled with God's purpose and guidance for me, even now I am having difficulties with employment, but that is mainly due to the economy here in Canada, however God has healed me from my past and from the pains of such, by crucifying it at the cross with Him, amen. He is doing some amazing work in me. In fact I have a heart for worship and I play drums in two worship bands at a couple of homeless shelters, lead worship at another church every second Thursday of the month, and also am working on putting together a worship CD called freedom. Trusting I Christ to bring this all together, Looking to start a worship team and go to local churches and if God willing the world. to spread how we can walk in the truth of His Grace, Power and Love through praise and worship. The name of the team is Alive In Christ (hope you do not mind me mentioning this on your site, simply just giving you a testimony of what Christ has done, for, in and what he is doing through me) as this is what we are, and being that we have been placed into eternal life, and grafted into the vine. Amen.
We are either in the life of Adam, going to the lake of fire, or in Christ going to eternity with Jesus. Amen
Thank you for the work your doing and for posting this "debate" as I enjoy a good bible discussion as you know iron sharpens iron. Again hope to here from you, God Bless you and

Love your Brother in Christ and Glory be to Jesus. Amen

Lee Brewster
AliveInChrist

By: leebrewster

leebrewster — Fri, 26 Mar 2010 07:58:11 +0000

By: Chip

Chip — Tue, 12 Jan 2010 12:40:44 +0000

I think in the end you can prove or disprove any and all doctrine by doctrine. So we have an element of faith to fall back on. Jesus said it is finished ! all that is needed to be done was done through him. It also says that in him we are complete ( having all its part or elements). He entered into the Holy Of Holy's once, he sacrificed himself once, We Are One In Him, (this in itself is a powerful teaching, that is not understood) we are a new creature, we are adopted, we are created after his image. the new creature who is imaged after Christ is recognized as one in Christ ,as he is holy I am holy, as he is without sin i am without sin, "in the flesh no" but in the spirit yes. You cannot teach a physical relationship and base your doctrine on temperal salvation, we have entered into a higher understanding in the spiritual realm. No flesh will enter into heaven and no flesh shall be justified in his sight, we are corrupt after the fashion of Adam, but yet we are pure without spot after the redemption of Christ who took away the penalty of the law which was death and gave us life through and by himself. When you read the New Testament alot of what you are hearing is bringing the jews from a life based on law and self effort to a life based on grace. (an alien concept to them and other religions). So to us who live by Grace are confused because we did not grow up under a law based system.

In a nutshell there is a seperation of the flesh and spirit, a spirit (the new creature) cannot sin, and unfortunatly the spirit has been made subject to vanity(the flesh) which can sin, not willingly, but by the operation of God who has created both to work and do his will. Jesus took away the penality of sin and created in himself one new man fashioned after himself, but he never removed the sin nature from the man(flesh). If you are going to eccept onced saved, always saved it must be understood in faith and with the knowledge of the seperation of the flesh and spirit. Ye must be born again; and truly the first part of the phrase must be understood Once Saved. Let us get that right in our lives before we we worry of the eternal properties of the second part, Always Saved. Sincerely and I enjoy your web site.. EHaskell (author of Once Saved, Always Saved @ Trafford.com

P.S. those who view Hebrew 6 as a nay sayer to there security,need to see it from the view point of the Jews (the Hebrews) in the wilderness who were enlightened and tasted (mana) and were partakers of the spirit and yet they could not enter in because of there rejection (their unbelief,) and once there is the element of rejection or unbelief it is impossible to bring any one to repentance seeing they reject the very core of what is needed to enter in. For God so loved the world that he gave his only son, there is your enlightenedment ;there is your spirit, there is your tasting ,what will you do with it?

By: naturalidadlady

naturalidadlady — Fri, 23 Oct 2009 23:02:04 +0000

I don't believe in once saved always saved. Let's read Hewbrews 6:4-6 the bible says it is empossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have becaom partakers of the Holy Spirit and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God and put Him to an open shame. What really took it home for me was Hewbrews 10:26-29 which states for if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but certain fearful expectation of judgement, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. Anyone who has rejected Mosses law dies without mery on the tesitmony of two or three witnesses. Of how much worse punishment do you suppose willbe thought worthy who has tarmpled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covernant by which he was santified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace. The holy spirit is a gift from God and as indicated by some others God will not take away a gift given. I do recall that the spirit of God was taken away from King Saul. Further what hope is there for person who grieve the holy spirit. Remember the spirit of God does not strive with man always and the gift of God is without repentance. We have alot of christians who were given gifts from God and even in disobedience the gift was not taken away, however, that does not mean that they are walking in the way of the Lord and eternal life belongs to them. It simply means that if they had the gift of healing or teaching that gift still remains, however their sould can still be lost because of disobedience. Remember you can only serve one master and if you are not in obedience to God you are not serving him and if you are not his then you must belong to satan.

By: Jackie0

Jackie0 — Sat, 25 Apr 2009 00:26:24 +0000

Great explanation (since I agree with you) the best explanation is simple, wasnt Jesus so simple in explaining the things of Heaven to His children?
If we are alive in Christ then our “works” will show, our tree will produce works/fruit worthy of the Lamb. Jesus himself “cursed” the fig tree that did not produce figs, it withered and died. How can the Son of Man, (who did not come to condemn the world) curse a tree and basically kill it and deprive it from producing more fruit?
We are made in His image and like the fig tree (that was made to produce figs) if our fruit/works do not produce the “fruits of the Spirit” then we will be cursed and cast away.

By: Dawn Fallon

Dawn Fallon — Sat, 18 Apr 2009 16:18:33 +0000

I totally agree with all of it!! So refreshing to read that I am not alone.

By: John on Cape Cod

John on Cape Cod — Thu, 16 Apr 2009 18:12:04 +0000

Dear Anon,

Again, I believe God's Word tells us that He wants us to know our destiny --that we can have certainty and confidence. Continuing to look at what the Apostle John wrote:

Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. By this is love perfected with us, so that we may have confidence for the day of judgment, because as he is so also are we in this world. There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love 1 John 4:15-18

You also see in these verses the power of God's love, the liberating power that alleviates the fear of eternal judgment. Children of God, do not have to fear His judgment, although by His love, He will discipline them (see Heb 12:5-11). It is also written, " God has not given us the spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind (2 Tim 1:7)."

On the other hand, I also believe that the enemy of our souls wants to keep us captive to fear. Satan does not want us to rest in the complete and perfect work of Jesus Christ, which Heb 10:14 says "by a single offering He has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified." With such glorious promises such as this one, and many other in the Word that give us confidence before God, ought not we serve Him, motivated and empowered by such wondrous & saving love? If you have received Jesus Christ as Savior, and you believe He is Lord, then He alone is faithful and capable to finish the work He stated in you. What reason to rejoice, praise, and serve Him with gratitude! Let this marvelous grace overwhelm and overflow!

I am praying that you will realize the full joy and confidence in your salvation through the working of His Holy Spirit! (ref Ps 51:12)
Amen.

By: John on Cape Cod

John on Cape Cod — Thu, 16 Apr 2009 17:47:19 +0000

Explaining Loss (Part 2)
Demonic Faith

We've been talking about “explaining loss”. That is, why do some people appear to be in the faith, and in church, and then they disappear, fall totally off the map? We don't see them around any longer. Did they have something and then they lost it? Or did they never have it all? Now the apostle John's conclusion on the matter is this they never had it all. The way he put it is this, “they went out from among us but they were not of us, for if they had been of us they would have continued with us but they went out that they may be manifest that none of them were of us.” His idea that they “are not of us” demonstrates that they were never of us. The point of this message, and as well as the previous message about “dead faith” is we know that in order to be sure that someone is of the faith, they must have the Holy Spirit. If you have the Holy Spirit you going to produce good works.

So, lets lets continue with James, having already looked at “dead faith” which was in James 2:14 to 17. Now we're going to look at what we're going to call “demonic faith” which has an intellectual component and also an emotional component.

James chapter 2 starting at verse eighteen reading verse 19 as well, says
“But someone will say, "You have faith and I have works." Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe--and shudder!

Now, noticed that the demons obviously understand that God exists. They've seen Him in His glory. They have that picture in their mind and they even shudder! There's an emotional response. Which can happen during a genuine encounter with the Lord. I might also add, that an emotional response can happen with something that is not of the LORD – think about people at a rock concert or at the Super Bowl or other sporting event. We need to realize that an emotional response does not complete a genuine faith. It is a component, but in itself cannot be relied upon. The demons are missing a vital component of a trust that causes obedience.

Jesus illustrated a similar phenomena in his parable of the sower. Take a look at Matthew chapter 13 verse 20 and 21. If you remember, the story the sower goes out, casts seed, which is the word of God. The first lands by the wayside, which the devil snatches up. The second seed is the one we're going to examine here. It says, “He who received the seed on the stony places this is the one hears the word and immediately receives it with joy yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while for when tribulation or persecution arises, because of the Word, immediately stumbles.” So there an idea hear that there is an emotional response. There is a great joy they when the gospel is heard, however, it does not take root. It does not take root in the heart. It will not bear fruit and the plant shrivels up, once severe testing comes. This is an illustration therefore, a demonic faith.

Let's re-examine James verse 19 – “you believe that there is one God you do well even the demons believe and tremble.” We already made the observation that the demons have seen God . A demonic faith, therefore relies on sight. It could rely on signs, or could rely on experiences, or could rely on feelings. However, what we are called to do? According to 2 Corinthians 5:7 “We walk by faith and not by sight.” Getting this backwards is very dangerous. There is great danger relying solely on some kind of phenomenon, or some kind of experience, and that's not where we want to put our trust.

We need to rely or trust in the truth found in the Word of God. Otherwise, if we have a bad day, we must have a bad God, and on a good day, a good God. However, the Lord is always good, the same, yesterday, today, and tomorrow. His character is immune to economic downturns or flighty, fickle behavior. His character is stable. If we are to have the stability we need, it will come from a trust in God and His Word. Otherwise our our senses will deceive us, as things aren't always what they seem.

So true genuine, dynamic faith is relying on the word of God. This is the word of God, that James says in Chapter 1, to receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls. In fact, salvation has two agents working together, which we will develop further when we look at dynamic faith. But I will leave you with this from 2 Thessalonians chapter 2, were Paul was rejoicing at their salvation. Notice the two agents that are work in verse 13. It says a “We are bound to give thanks to God always for you brethren, beloved of the Lord because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.” So these of the two agents that come to bear in saving faith. The believing in the gospel truth and the work of the Holy Spirit. We'll look at that in more detail next time as we examine how the Holy Spirit is vital to a saving, genuine, dynamic faith.

But for now the question is: Where is your trust? Is it in what God has said, or is it on your experiences? Does this trust in God produce obedience?

By: Amazing Post… « ~* Neverending Grace For A Broken Soul *~

Amazing Post… « ~* Neverending Grace For A Broken Soul *~ — Tue, 14 Apr 2009 18:26:42 +0000

[...] http://vickybeeching.com/blog/once-saved-always-saved/ [...]

By: brokensoul

brokensoul — Tue, 14 Apr 2009 15:43:09 +0000

Wow. I have to say I dont know if I completely agree with the theological stand but have to say that I am VERY impressed at your thoroughness! All I am going to say is this...if we are truly Christians, our faith is suppose to be a LIFESTYLE not a duty or a choice. We are saved by the GRACE of God. We are called to surrender our lives, hearts, and minds every day as many times as it takes. God extends His grace and mercy to us freely and without reserve. We ARE going to stumble and fail. As much as I will encourage this "debate" we need to remember that truth is truth, and speculation and debate is what it is. Are we focusing on being more on the tools and material or the builder? There are some things I believe we are not fully meant to understand. There is a VERY fine line between predestination and free will. Honestly I believe both are right and wrong to an extent. But should that even matter if we are fulfilling the Great Commission? What will it really solve to determine who is right and who is wrong? Jesus said to go into ALL the world and preach the Gospel and let HIM work in the hearts and minds of those who hear it. Hope that helps a little.
- Dave
www.brokensoulforchrist.wordpress.com